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So the question of the hour is, can California Adventure be salvaged? My impression is that constructing that park as a second gate was a huge mistake. What Disneyland really needs is serious expansion, something which is mostly impossible at the moment as the park is landlocked, surrounded, and developed in such a way that all the ends are cut off. Last year I visited that complex on one of their busiest days of the season. Disneyland was absolutely jammed full of people, and California Adventure was nearly empty, and most of the people who were there were either on presale 2-park tickets like we were, or they were upset that they couldn't get into Disneyland. It seems that someone forgot that the problem is that Disneyland can't handle the crowd that it draws, and focused instead on the revenue potential of a second gate. So they ended up building a second gate that can't stand on its own (certainly not for the full price of a Disneyland ticket!) that doesn't draw. Then they built it not based on the successful (but unique) Disneyland style of park design, but rather the modern Duell-style, where you have to do a lot more walking and the park ends up with a lot more dead space. Wouldn't it have been a neat idea to re-route the Disneyland Railroad to encircle both parks, knocking down the berm at the entrance end of Main St., so that Main St. would have the California sun thing at one end and the castle at the other, with the park entrance in the middle? The problem with that is that then the plaza between the parks gets chopped in half, and there are probably technical reasons for not putting that *under* the middle of the park... --Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Very interesting article indeed. I went to DCA for the first time in April and actually loved it. The theming was awesome and lots of their rides were really cool - especially Monster's Inc. I did think it lacked a lot of the "Disney" references, but I guess that's partially why I liked it. That's why I love Animal Kingdom so much too. I don't need to see Disney characters every single day of my Disney trip. As long as the quality is there, I'm cool. I'd be really upset if they messed with the original Disneyland though and combined it with DCA across the courtyard. There's nothing wrong with a two-gate resort as long as both gates are equally appealing to people. That will spread people out like they originally planned. I'm glad I got to experience the almost original DCA though before the change. Now I'll have something to compare it to when the "new" park is done.
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I know there's an obvious difference in attendance between the two parks there, but do you think anyone really buys single-park tickets? I only ask because in the Orlando model, I doubt many people do, and there's a certain higher perceived value that you can get into more than one park at a time on the same ticket.
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I was going to say the same thing. A single day-single park ticket is $66. A two-day park hopper ticket is $132 (currently on sale for $122). So, if you're spending two days there, and only spend a half day at DCA, you're still getting a bargain. I don't really think gate prices at Disney can be compared to parks like Six Flags or Cedar Fair because they don't have two gates right next to each other like that.
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Jeff, Disney pushed the 2-for-one deals so much you can buy a one day ticket and still get into DCA another day, giving it inflated attendance, and also giving it the reputation of being a throw away park. This isn't just about some new entryway here, we're talking serious re-tooling of this park, from Paradise Pier to Hollywood Studios.
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I was actually very impressed with DCA. I loved Disneyland as well, but I went to DCA twice and Disneyland just once. Is the $100 million figure correct for Tower of Terror?! How many people from California don't make it to Orlando for Disney World? I'm curious because in the midwest I almost never heard of somebody going to Disneyland instead of WDW. I don't understand how Disney could spend $100 million on a copy of a ride in Florida. Is it that they prefer people to go to Orlando if they have the choice because the prices are more substantial? I'm assuming that figure is WAY off. That being said, is this going to be very similar to Disneyland? Is it really a good idea to have a similar mainstreet just across a small midway from the original main street? While I agree DCA did not have the same "magic" and whimsy of its counterparts, I don't want to pay a premium ticket price for a similar experience. Indiana Jones and Dinosaur are fantastic rides, but now another one? I hope they can bring a new element to the ride instead of just switching up the theming. Finally, was Cars really that successful? I thought it was a snooze. Is it just me? I'm leary of an entire themed area devoted to the movie. I don't think the Pixar movies have the same magical disney feeling as the classics, but it could just be that I can't appreciate the new Pixar movies where I stand. I'm glad they've decided to make a serious investment and I just hope that it develops into a true Disney gem, but maintains its standing as a different experience from all the rest. They should try to pull it off like DisneySea.
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California Adventure has a few rides that are really good the rest of the park stinks. I've been there three times in the last 2 years and it really isn't very good. They should have made it into a Movie studio Backlot type deal rather then focusing on the "california" theme. I really don't think anybody cares and besides the buisiest part of the entire park is the hollywood section the rest of the park is empty all the time. I know california has alot of studio backlot stuff but they could have made it disney studios aiken to Walts first original drawlings. now that would have kicked some ass.
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Little Mermaid, Cars, and Midway Mania better be some high caliber attractions. 99% of the reason DCA had the bad rep was because of lack of attractions. It basically was a strip mall with a handful of things to do. Now they are doing a 1 billion makeover and coming from that is 3 rides? Cars better be their POTC in terms of popularity, and it's timed to the sequel. People basically wanted those "wow" DL style themed immersive rides. I doubt many people pick Main Street as their #1 reason to visit DL so I'm hoping they look at how to put more attractions as things move ahead, and less mall, into the park. I've read elsewhere where they are cloning over Mickey's Philharmagic from WDW and adding a nightime lagoon show. Will essentially 5 new things to see, rolled out over the 5 years, be enough to turn the tide for DCA? At one point, they thought TOT and Bug's Lands carnival tot rides were going to be enough as well. If they junk Maliboomer, they should send it over to DL as a T-Land attraction, and theme it to space travel.
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Disney spending $1.1 billion on a single project is always an exciting thing. It's really hard to grasp the whole idea by that one article, but hopefully some concept art shows up some time. I've never visited Disney's parks in California, but I always wanted to. With all the bad press that DCA gets. It will be interesting to see what this project will do to that park.
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The new plans for California Adventure still sound incredibly forced and "heady".
On one side you have a park which is perceived to be a vision of one single man, with a magic castle as its centerpiece. On the other you will have a corporate fun-fair in disguise in search of ots destination, which will feature a replica of a long forgotten cinema. Wow, if this isn´t high conept to draw in the crowds...As for one-day Disneyland visitors: There are more than you think! For many tourists outside of any realm of interest in Theme-Parks, Disneyland is a synomym for America/L.A. They will visit DL as they see the Hollywood sign, the Chinese Theatre/Hollywood Blvd, and maybe the Griffith Observatory. Those guests would never think about staying two days in a theme-park! If one park can get away with outrageous one-day ticket prices, its DL.
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I really wish that the plans had included an expansion of the monorail. That park could really use some sort of mass transit. I'm sure the streetcar thing will be cool, if you can manage to get on it with the huge crowds the new and improved park will draw.  Sarcasm aside, I'm hoping for the best. The details that are emerging on the Midway Mania attraction are looking cool.
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Jeff has hit the nail on the head. While the attendence difference is HUGE, I'veheard that almost no one pays to get into the place. It's all park hopping and annual passholders. I think it's great they are doing this....and, that they are spending more than the park cost to originally build. Remember, the approx. 1.5 billion spent on the place included the Grand Californian Hotel and Downtown Disney. Actual original price for the park was around $700 mil.
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This guy is still in denial, after all the damage he did to the resort in the late 90s: "Mr. Pressler, who left Disney in 2002, says the park suffered from comparisons to its successful neighbor, but he denies the budget was ever a problem. "What we missed the mark on was not having enough for young kids compared to the Magic Kingdom," he says." Sure, with the exception of a few kiddie rides the place was perfect!
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DCA stinks of Eisner. It's obvious corners were cut in order to get the cost of the park down. But I don't think it's a horrible place. It's unreasonable to expect the park to be as good as Disneyland since that park got a four decades + head start on DCA. Besides, there are some good attractions, like Soarin' and Grizzly River Run. Tower of Terror is a masterpiece and will always be a masterpiece- it's probably the best Disney attraction that Walt never touched. Didn't the park cost about $1 billion? Even adjusted for inflation, sinking $1.1 billion into an existing amusement park is big news. Going by what I heard, the park is going to look a lot better when all is said and done and will feature many new things that will surely make it somewhat comparable to Disneyland.
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Rob...like I said above, actual park costs were around $700mil. Rest was hotel and Downtown Disney
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Gomez, the artwork for many of the things have been released already (in the 2006 annual report mostly) and some of the new stuff is on the HUB (the online site for Disney cast members) and the artwork all looks top notch. Just google it and you should find most of it. Peabody that quote is great - Pressler was clueless the entire time he was at Disney. Funny how he refers to Disneyland as the Magic Kingdom, you would think him of all people being as high up as he was would know that the name Magic Kingdom refers to the Florida park and only the Florida park (as told to cast members in Traditions). Just goes to show how clueless he really was. Personally, I'm excited to see this. I was always a big fan of the park as it was yet always felt the park had so much potential. If this Carland attraction is even half as good as the Journey to the Center of the Earth ride at DisneySeas then I think it will help the park big time. Unlike Disney World where some people may just go to Epcot and not Magic Kingdom I don't think anything could ever be done where people would go to DCA over DL. Maybe they will have to adjust the prices of the hopper but I doubt anyone will ever plan to just go to DCA. I'm just hoping this is just the start of a trend of Disney sinking money back into the parks. I know I'm not the only one who thinks the Magic Kingdom could use some money.
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Is the $100 million figure correct for Tower of Terror?! Yup.
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^^Magic Kingdom, in particular, Tomorrowland, needs a lot of money thrown into it. When I went on Space Mountain last year it really needed a lot of work like they redid the one in Disneyland. The queue is very, very dated and the ride itself hurts on some of the turns. The things I really enjoyed at Magic Kingdom is Main Street USA (never fails to get you in the "Disney" mind-frame), Splash Mountain (best flume ride around), and Pirates of the Caribbean (this doesn't need an explanation).
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That 1.1 billion is not just for what has been announced now and Toy Story Mania and the lagoon show are not part of that spending. They were already budgeted before the makeover was approved. There will be other things announced. Disney will space out the announcements to keep the story out there to help with their fight in Anaheim over the possible housing in the resort district. This is really just what they have nailed down so far. There will be more changes to come.
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^^ Gomez, if you like the POTC ride at the Magic Kingdom... it is NOTHING compared to the Disneyland version. I love the ride in Florida, but the DL version is nearly twice as long, has two drops and so much more - you'd love it. And rumor is Space will get a big rehab sometime next year... Splash is going down for the first two months of 2008 and word is Space will get its turn sometime shortly after that.
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^I really want to go to California, but I have a feeling I'm going to to wait 5-6 years.
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^Wow, those are very cool concepts. They've gotten me excited.
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All I have to say is we should all write Matt Ouimet a big thank you for working so hard before the 50th anniversary to bring back Disneyland. I doubt with all of his hard work and careful budgeting to get projects through we wouldn't see this 1 billion investment in DCA.
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Gomez said: Magic Kingdom, in particular, Tomorrowland, needs a lot of money thrown into it. When I went on Space Mountain last year it really needed a lot of work like they redid the one in Disneyland. The queue is very, very dated and the ride itself hurts on some of the turns.
SM at Disneyland is great! However, the Tomorroland there also needs work too. I visited DL and CA all in the same day last summer. I got a lot of ride time in at CA because the place was pretty dead like most of you described above. Of all the Disney parks, this one really needs some work, which is no surprise to me that this much $$$ is being spent on an overhaul. Disneyland was great! Being that Walt Disney is one of my heroes, this place was like walking through a museum. It has a certain kind of charm, and TPOC is absolutely amazing, blowing the Florida version out of the water! Unlike MK, walking into DL really makes you feel like you stepped into another world, not being able to see outside the berm.
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SFGAMDieHARD: Yes. $100 million for ToT. It takes a lot of money to buy those special elevators, build that building and theme all that space!!! It's not an unreasonable figure at all for something like that. Right on the money. Still wish they had opted for a longer ride and more inside though. It would have been nice to have an out of the shaft sequence at DCA too, only much longer where you go past darkride scenes (in a more elaborate way then Florida). That would have been my choice. The way it is now, there just isn't enough meat for me. There's so much more story that could be done with that ride. janfrederick: Stay tuned. You just might be getting your wish on the monorail. The rumors indicate that while it will still run that route after this first phase of DCA reconstruction is complete, it won't be staying that way. Personally, I am happy about most of the changes so far. Don't like the concept of the new entrance much since it looks JUST like their Disney/MGM studio park in Orlando. And I have always hated that entrance gate. It looks ugly to me. Equally as ugly is their idea to put a huge Mickey Face on the Sun Wheel. (shudder). Other then that, it all looks pretty good. I'm particularly happy that we will be getting a version of the old Flying Saucer ride that closed at Disneyland when I was just a baby. Let's hope this one is more reliable. The 1961 version was their equivalent of Rocket Rods and was removed almost as fast. I'm also looking forward to the electric trolley cars. Anyone who has been to San Francisco can tell you, they definitely add some atmosphere. Something sorely lacking at DCA. That being said, all the theming in the world will never equate it to Disneyland. For two reasons... one, Walt built that place and walked around it. Sure he walked around DCA's property too, but it was orange groves and a parking lot so not quite the same. But I like what they are doing with the theme...seeing Calif as if you were Disney himself who just arrived. Interesting. The other reason it will never have the same nostalgia is quite simply one word...fireworks. Okay, two words, fireworks AND castle. There's a reason people gather in front of the castle each night and gaze northward. Now, unless Disney is shooting fireworks off the roof of the Anaheim Convention Center, you just aren't going to get the same kind of experience with the Carthay Circle Theatre no matter how nice it is. (And it DOES look nice!). Oh, and also you have all the little girls out there who still dream about being a princess in a castle and not an usher at a theatre from years gone by. It's just not the same. But, the changes announced along with the ones they haven't yet should go a long ways for the company to do a little face saving over a park that never should have been built in the manner it was. It will always be a bit of a Frankenstein park hobbled together though now. I'm sure deep down they wish they could just start over from scratch.
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Funny how he refers to Disneyland as the Magic Kingdom, you would think him of all people being as high up as he was would know that the name Magic Kingdom refers to the Florida park and only the Florida park
See now I thought that was the case too, but last time I rode the Disneyland train, its soundtrack most definitely referred to the park as "the Magic Kingdom" throughout.
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^ I heard that too and I'm pretty sure I saw it written in a couple of places as well. I thought it said the "original" Magic Kingdom, but I can't be certain. The new concept art looks wicked. But, I agree the Sun Wheel redo looks horrific as well as the MGM clone entrance gate. The rest of the stuff looks awesome. Hopefully they've managed to get the Test Track ride system working better since it appears to be what they're using for Radiator Springs Racers.
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I enjoyed my visit there, it wasn't very busy compared to Disneyland so it was about a 3/4 day park. A couple of rides made it all worth while but conceptually I thought it was a stretch. In fact, I said to a smiling castmember somewhere, "This place is great! Why, I feel just like I'm in California!" Whether it was lost on her I'll never know, she just kept smiling. It seems the re-do can only improve the park. It adds much needed rides, boosts the overall appearance of the place, and provides some needed balance. As for the entrance, I'm getting a little tired of that fake Studio look, even Six Flags has some of that going, so I think the smart, logical choice is the Old "Hollywood & Vine" look. At least it's "historic California", which automatically makes it longer lasting. Most park visitors alive today can't remember when Hollywood looked, or rather, was envisioned that way, so it ages slower. Kinda like Main Street USA, it's still with us and we still think it's cool. I'm really intrigued by Dave's idea , it would have been a great idea to make it one big park. A Disneyland expansion of that sort would have certainly eased the crush of humanity that passes through those gates every day. But like he says, are we foolish enough to think that Disney would actually pass on the chance to get two separate admissions from everyone that came? Or at least a twicket? No. Just like Florida's Magic Kingdom, Disneyland continues to be the most popular, and Disney's struggle is to improve those second and third gate experiences so that everyone will make sure they visit them, too. I think these current plans can only be seen as improvements.
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Me again. Disneyland has always been known as the Magic Kingdom and when the Florida park was built they wouldn't call it Disneyland, but used Magic Kingdom as the name for the park that would join others under the Disney World banner. But for a while, it was the only place to visit down there, and when people went to the park they simply said they had gone to Disney World, and the Magic Kingdom name got kinda lost. Now, (at least in my part of the country) people still refer to MK as Disney World, then go on to mention EPCOT, MGM, etc. They might have done best to go ahead and call it Disneyland, it was a copy anyhow, and then made the Disney World Resort concept appear when the other stuff started showing up. I like to think there's only one Disneyland, though. Those who have been to both might agree.
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Some of us remember when Splash Mountain first opened, and Indiana Jones Ride, and the Tower of Terror at MGM. The excitement generated by these attractions brought families in from around the world to experience these ichons for themselves. As mentioned before; who the hell is going to book a vacation to L.A. just to see another mainstreet when Disneyland has its own a few hundred yards away? People flock to Disney for the amazing rides, not the shops. Sure, there is only one Disneyland but with each new generation, the park becomes that much more dated. I may prefer Disneyland, but kids today Kids want IoA. 1 billion can go a long way to show Universal that Disney can build their own Islands of Adventure here in California. Isn't that what Universal spent on IoA, 1 billion? I'm surprised Universal hasn't already tried to bring IoA to LA. Anyway, Expedition Everest proved to me that Disney's imagineers still got it when it comes to theme park tech. But a DCA facelift without introducing a few more iconic attractions would a huge waste and would send the wrong message to a public eagerly waiting the next big Disney ride. It also opens the door for a next-generation theme-park like IoA to compete with an ever aging Disneyland.
*** This post was edited by rc-madness 10/20/2007 3:47:25 AM ***
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Oh they have wanted to expand Universal for quite some time rc. But the problem is one of space. And most notably, neighbors who have fought them on any such plans. In addition, unlike Florida, USH is an actual working movie studio, so that needs to be accommodated too. All those reasons is why you haven't seen anything additional from them. Will we ever? Who knows. It would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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