Well that seems like a blatant management/maintenance problem. However, how often are axels replaced? I would think that if there were no problems they might not be, unless they have a shelf life, however that didn't seem to be the case.
*** This post was edited by Willh51 5/7/2007 9:40:58 AM ***
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I didn't know that axle replacement was part of regular roller coaster maintenance. I know that most people don't replace their car axles on a regular basis. Then again, the park seems kinda strange. What's with painting all the big coasters white? 
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When I looked up the coaster at rcdb.com, the trains were red. The post accident pics, the train is blue. So am I to believe that they changed the color of the trains & restraints, but did not change an axel for 15 years? Wow. That is rather terrible.
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OK, let me ask, how do you say 'manslaughter' in Japanese?
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Aren't we getting a little dramatic here? After all, we don't really know who's at fault here.
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Ok, let me ask, how do you say 'typical under engineered Togo' in Japanese?
*** This post was edited by DanLinden 5/7/2007 10:57:45 AM ***
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I don't know if you can really blame Togo for that. Yes, perhaps Togo didn't design the axles with a long fatigue life; however, at the same time the thing might have just been a material failure (then you would be blaming the steel manufacturer). Rob's right, we do not know who is at fault just yet. Peace. -Craig
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I can't completely disagree that we can't assume blame on anybody yet. But it can certainly be narrowed down. The rider and ride operators cannot be blamed. Togo could be blamed, but not changing a part out for 15 years really is not their fault. That same theory goes to the steel manufacturer as well. That narrows it down to the park itself. The one comment that I did not understand: why would the park need to be told in a ride safety guide to change the axels at a certain point? Wouldn't the park engineers also suggest to change it? Other parks have changed the axels. Why not this one?
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That's so odd because I always assumed that the Japanes parks had a much higher standard of safety when it comes to their rides when compared to most US parks. Clearly it seems like the park is at fault as it was their responsibility to check the axles,along with other components during the annual tear down/reassembly during the off-season.Had they done so they might've been able to detect any hairline cracks in the axle,or mounting brackets which hold it to the train,as well as any possible defects that might've been present in the steel during the fabrication process of the component itself.
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I'm surprised a single-point failure can cause a derailment - that's kinda scary.
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Why do we have to "blame" someone? It's a tragedy. Good grief...we are sometimes so quick to gather the pitchforks and torches and scour the countryside for who is to blame.
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I wonder if the amusement industry will step-up axel inspections due to this.
Perhaps visual inspections are done every time a wheel is changed. Fixing blame is a natural thing for people to do. It's often cheaper than fixing the problem. Either way, I think that coaster is toast.
Best wishes for all involved...
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That's so odd because I always assumed that the Japanes parks had a much higher standard of safety when it comes to their rides when compared to most US parks. Interesting commentary…care to share the factors that led you to such conclusion? This is no attempt to belittle…just personal interest in what could lead someone to this type of conclusion. *** This post was edited by Jeffrey R Smith 5/7/2007 4:20:47 PM ***
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I think there's a perception of safety on a cultural level in Japan. Steel Dragon was closed for 3 years after a wheel fell off. Compare this to Wild Thing, which had a similar incident, yet wasn't closed for nearly as long.
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This is so sad, I really hate to hear news like this. The good news is that statiscally these events are so rare. Speaking of Togo, I believe they also provided Kings Island with the King Cobra which operated for several years. I vaguely remember an incident in 1984 (the first year King Cobra opened), when a wheel fell off causing the ride to partially dislodge from it's track. Nobody was killed, but several people suffered from minor injuries. The problem was apparently corrected, and the ride reopened before the end of KC's first season. Does anyone else remember this?
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Steel Dragon was closed for three years due to what can best be described as a superstition in their culture, not due to safety issues. *** This post was edited by Mamoosh 5/7/2007 7:53:52 PM ***
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Finally I knew something like no inspections on the coaster. which he mechanics are crazy not to replace the break axles and If they did replace the axles the coaster would't rash.*** This post was edited by Twistercoasterman 5/8/2007 11:26:04 AM ***
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If Mantis derailed but it won't because its more advanced and if it did that will be very bad to Cedar Point's amazing attractions and make attendance really drop.*** This post was edited by Twistercoasterman 5/8/2007 11:29:07 AM ***
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^^Well, at least it wasn't in all CAPS.
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Sorry about that I was just typing wierd.
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I agree that the park should have been looking for fractures in the axles but metal fatigue is often hard to detect. I'm not saying the park isn't ultimately at fault- in the end someone has to be blamed and that happens to be the park because it was their coaster and their responsibility to make sure it was safe- but I don't buy into the mentality that the park simply neglected to take care of the ride. I doubt they said, "f*ck it, we don't need to check the axles because we're sure they're fine."
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I thought Steel Dragon 2000 was SBNO because Japana was waiting for the service contract with Morgan to expire so they could allow someone they "trusted" to repair the ride.
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in the end someone has to be blamed This line of thinking indeed mirrors current reality. I simply and whole-heartedly disagree with the basis. Accidents can and do happen. Often it is nobody’s fault regardless of how society rigs the process. Living life has inherent risks… In this particular case the attempts to assign guilt seem fruitless until somebody qualified/knowledgeable can answer these simple questions…Do roller coaster train axels need to be replaced at a known interval AND was the park made aware of this known interval from the manufacturer? We’ve got good discussion of the difficulties inherent to inspecting axels for micro-fractures. Seems safe to say that the inspection process is “iffy” in determining need for replacement… There would be some deniability for the park if such accusation comes to fruition… We get the answer to the questions above…and guilt could be obvious. Otherwise we’re left at the mercy of various opinions and imperfect judicial systems to assign ultimate blame to one party among multiple candidates. Such process seems to satisfy a sociological need for condemnation. But at what cost to society as a whole? *** This post was edited by Jeffrey R Smith 5/8/2007 1:37:01 PM ***
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in the end someone has to be blamed I can't say that I disagree ENTIRELY. Yes, that is a real problem with modern culture, and I *hate* the phrasing. But I think more than someone being "blamed", the real issue is figuring out WHAT went wrong, and then deciding if this TYPE of incident could be prevented from happening again. In a sense, it KINDA is like figuring out where to "point the finger". But I tend to think of these kinds of incidents as being either an "accident", or a failure somewhere in the PROCESS. When a part has lasted 15 years on a coaster train, it *probably* wasn't completely unforeseeable.
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Only a couple years after King Cobra opened at KI they had a derailment injuring at least 4 people *Back and Neck* do you think axel replacement was a recomendation from the manufacurure? I love the speculation without investigation to the cause of everything. They can take these axels and the remainging ones on the train and check for stress fractures then determine if that was the cause. Chuck
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^The incident on King Cobra happened in the very first year of operation.
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The latest I've heard was that the axle may have fallen off much earlier in the course of the ride & that scratch marks found on the rails near the station/lift seem to indicate that the axle failed during the first part of the ride,yet somehow the train managed to keep going until it finally derailed closer to the end of the circuit.
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I think that all blame is not valid until the entire story is brought to light, the fact that the axels were not changed doesn't mean that they were not tested according to specifications of the manufacturer. If all proceedures were followed as per the engineers and manufacturers guidlines such as daily, weekly and monthly inspections the blame is hard to place on the park or even it's mechanics. There all several ways to test axels including x-ray.
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